For someone who started liking Star Wars after watching TFA and TLJ, how would you suggest for them to watch the movies in order? Also, other than the movies, are there anything any new fans need to read / watch in order to get to know the lore more?

OH GOODNESS, what an entry into Star Wars! Delightful.

So some would recommend the machete order, some chronological order – it kind of depends on where you are with SW honestly. Like the machete order chops it up so that the big twists/reveals aren’t spoiled while also maintaining the ‘good’ in star wars (cause if you start with the prequels it’s like..oof, a little hard to maintain interest for some – understandably).

But honestly if you’ve seen TFA and TLJ, I would just start with the prequels and go through them, yes even the Phantom Menace.

I recommend this with the huge caveat that they’re not very good. So just kind of be prepared to not have them feel like TFA/TLJ, they’re GOOD in the sense that they really expanded the universe and dove deep into a world where the Jedi were common(ish) and all over.

So with that in mind, my personal suggestions –

The Phantom Menace (ep 1)
Attack of the Clones (ep 2)
Clone Wars (This is a TV show and not necessary to watch, but if you have time I recommend it as it builds a lot of the stuff that the prequels miss in terms of characters/relationships specifically)
Revenge of the Sith (ep 3)
Rogue One (not episodic)
A New Hope (ep 4)
Empire Strikes Back (ep 5)
Return of the Jedi (ep 6)
Aftermath (novel)
Bloodline (novel, a few years before TFA – we believe it’s right around the time that Ben Solo turned and focused on Leia)
TFA
TLJ

There are a multitude of books that are considered new-canon now, but I think the list above will keep you quite busy. It’s important to note also that while there are decades of expanded lore and books, most o f those are not canon now – when Disney purchased LF they created their ‘new canon’ as it was a big mess TBH. So a lot of the stuff that you see sometimes mentioned in metas/speculations might be from the ‘Legends/Expanded Universe’ – mainly because we know that they’re pulling certain things from there and making it their own in the new canon.

So anyway, I’d start there and see how you feel =) There’s also another TV show (Rebels), but ultimately the list above will give you the best feel for the world as a starting point.

Hello! :) What do you think Ben solo is like? How is he different from Kylo Ren?

oh boy.

OKAY SO, those of you know I was never big on the whole ‘Ben Solo’ thing – I liked imagining who he WAS, but I didn’t like the idea that once redeemed he’d just be Ben Solo again. I was on the side of ‘he’s Kylo Ren and whomever he evolves into he’ll never go back to being Ben Solo so stop calling him that’ – but my goodness the movie changed that stance thoroughly.

I think…Ben Solo is quiet, but traumatized and emotionally unstable just like Kylo Ren, meaning he still carries that darkness, those outbursts. We see it in TFA when he attacks inanimate objects instead of people – that’s a really important distinction that they made in his ‘tantrums’.

I think he’s troubled, but kind. Honest and blunt, definitely a little awkward around people.

Desperate to fit in – throws himself into the hunt for Jedi relics, writes and muses about the philosophy, all in an attempt to fit what he thinks Luke and his mother/parents want. Because he knows, has always known, that deep down inside he’s not Luke – there’s something inside of him that’s dark, and scary. And it’s not just Snoke, who was trying to get to him even in Leia’s womb, it’s the Force in general – he has such a great power, a prodigy like Rey, but the Force is both Light and Dark and when you have great capacity for one you have it with the other. And so I think he sees Luke as this great, mythical, pure Jedi and wonders – angrily, probably – why he can’t be more like him.

So I think he also has cultivated a superiority complex based on that, his parents, his upbringing (nobility), his ‘rightful’ place in a destiny that the Force has shown him, etc. and this is all stoked and turned into flames by Snoke.

I think he’s always been alone, if not physically then emotionally separated from those who were supposed to care for him.

I think Kylo Ren is…all those things, but suppressed through years of abuse, manipulation, dark side use, emotional trauma, etc. by Snoke & religious (FO) fervor. He found someone – Snoke – who gave him a place, told him a grand story about how he was the next coming of Vader – a LEGEND in the galaxy. And Kylo found a place where his skills were to be applauded rather than feared, where he could ascend to rightfully rule, yadda yadda.

So when we see Kylo Ren ‘turn’ or become Ben Solo, we’re not so much seeing a new person – but we’re seeing the persona lift up. We see it with Rey. Ben’s curiosity, studious nature, he’s very calm with her, his honesty – and we see his compassion for her. He listens to her worries, really listens. To what she needs: to not feel alone in this effort, with this Force power. And he gives it to her freely, no strings. That’s Ben Solo.

i loved the “dual” between kylo and Luke. at first i thought luke came to whoop kylo’s butt but what we got was far better. to me it felt like not only did luke give the rebellion a fighting chance but also gave kylo his when he took the opportunity away from kylo to kill him. i feel like if kylo had killed luke, it could have sent him straight into darkness given his hate and anger towards his uncle. there is a lot to that scene and meaning, its great.

I really loved their scene too, I thought it was so appropriate and heartbreaking at the same time. I didn’t want them to fight, so what I got was so much better (even though they kind of fought sort of).

Luke was giving the spark time to escape, and finally facing his mistake – Kylo. He never apologized, never explained, and he got his chance. Kylo definitely would have killed Luke without a lot of remorse (like Han’s death had caused), because to Kylo, Luke literally tried to kill him in his sleep. That’s traumatizing and no one did anything to explain afterwards (that we know of, Luke just ran off basically).

So yeah, I think Luke took the opportunity to not only save the resistance, but to just…apologize and be with Ben in his last moments. Whether the apology was accepted or not, it was genuine, and dying in that way means that for sure he’ll be a Force ghost like Obi-Wan and Yoda, which means that he can be there in times of need, for Ben or Rey.

I think it’s a little cruel what happened, but it was the only way to ensure that he could both apologize and save his nephew from further bloodshed and put him way beyond redemption. It was beautiful in a way. I intend to write a lot about Luke’s story in a forthcoming meta.

For me, the problem wasn’t “You’re nothing, but not to me”. To call that negging is asinine. What bothered me was the whole final act where the instant he doesn’t get his way he orders his men to shoot her down and growls about killing her. It was about as bad as Anakin choking Padme. I know they’re doing the Zuko thing where he has to disappoint us first to make the redemption more satisfying, but if this were IRL I wouldn’t trust him again and we know antis can’t separate fiction and reality.

Kylo is…complex, of course, but it goes so much deeper than that. I know Ohtze is writing a big ol’ meta about it and has a LOOOT of similar thoughts of mine, so I’ll kind of hold off on diving deep here about it until that comes out.

But, in general, they are and have painted a picture of someone who has been deeply emotionally and physically traumatized by most of the people in his life at various levels, but most significantly Snoke and Luke.

When Rey rejects him in such an aggressive way, it triggers him and you immediately start to see the reaction to it each step of the way.

The entire final act is just a series of Kylo being fucked with by all of the triggers he has (not intentionally by them, but in the narrative) – Rey’s abandonment, the Falcon (Han), Luke showing up…he progressively gets more deranged and there’s a REASON for that. It goes far far beyond a childish ‘I didn’t get my way’ attitude, this is emotional trauma from someone who has never dealt with it.

And this isn’t excusing his actions, but they’re showing it to us so that we understand them – his behavior – a little more. We can somewhat sympathize with him in some respects – the way Rey does.

Anyway, this was a bit more than you asked for – but to wrap it up, again don’t freak about antis as there’s no winning with them. At all. We’ve seen it proven time and again that Disney gives no fucks about their cries.

Didn’t Rey think to herself in the novelization that she “saw this man before. In a dream. In a nightmare”? In my eyes, that’s another point of evidence in favor of the force bond being natural

Yep. “She had seen this man before, in a daydream, in a nightmare.”

The FORCE ITSELF wants these two to be together, jfc. Like, sending Rey dreams and visions of Kylo/Ahch-To/etc. – Kylo’s IMMEDIATE interest in her. The force bond, the balance, the fact that the force is CLEARLY GETTING ANNOYED AF WITH THEM BOTH TIMES THEY FIGHT – THE GROUND SPLITS IN TFA, THE FUCKING LIGHTSABER EXPLODES IN TLJ AND KNOCKS THEM OUT.

Like, regardless of whether or not Snoke just manipulated it, I’m pretty sure the bond was there and created in the interrogation scene. There’s a REASON it has been so prevalent in fandom these past two years, it’s not just fangirl speculation.

Kylo was curious, not sure what it was or how it came to be – force bonds are rare and ofc in their era all the knowledge (or a lot of it) was lost. It’s possible that Kylo believed Snoke was the one who created and manipulated it, but I’m of a mind to believe that Kylo knew deep down it was real – that it was Force-given. There are hints about it, but I think Kylo is a big believer in the Force and it’s ‘ways’, so for something like this to exist…he knows it’s for a reason.

But he was so emotional traumatized by Snoke that, when she rejected his offer, he lost it – second guessed himself again and got severely triggered.

Anyway, yes the force bond was likely a natural occurrence from TFA. If Snoke had anything to do with it, it was mostly a manipulation of Kylo’s emotional state to make him more vulnerable when it happened.

Can you explain the whole “Ben Solo likes fancy handwriting” thing? I’m assuming this was divined from a screenshot of the hut attack by Luke, but I haven’t seen a screenshot or speculation about it yet.

Heya – so in the first page (literally as I opened it) of The Last Jedi Visual Dictionary, there is a small image:

And there is an image elsewhere at the END of the book that’s the same thing but has scrolls with ‘Jedi Insights’ wrapped around it too. I might take more pictures later.

Anyway, so THIS is the box that you see in the flashbacks briefly with the lightsaber in the hut. And it’s important for you to understand the context too:

Paper, ink, all of that was EXTREMELY rare and not used at all in Star Wars universe. Particular attention is brought to that fact (that it’s rare) in Bloodlines. So the fact that Ben practiced the art of writing on scrolls and calligraphy is really interesting, and speaks to his scholarly/soft personality.

Calligraphy is ‘fancy handwriting’ so that’s also why you have that joke kind of thrown around, but ultimately…

When I saw it there, I immediately got very sad, because of all the memories and images you start thinking about with Ben Solo in his wooden hut, far away from the temple where he studied, writing down insights and philosophical musings about the Jedi. And then you have Luke, who saw that his heart was full of darkness still. And it’s just…idk, really sad.

I hope they don’t make Kylo/Ben responsible for whatever they do with Leia in Episode 9. If they kill her off I hope its not because he fired at the ship or something. Its going to be along 2 years lol. Everything will worry me.

Same! I don’t think they will though, because they already showed that Kylo was unwilling to kill his mother.

They did say they have enough footage to work with to have it ‘make sense’ so I think…they’ll probably have her off help rebuild the rebellion somewhere.

And if they decide to kill her, I 320000000% bet you that Hux will be responsible. He’ll have orchestrated an attack knowing Leia is there, without Kylo’s permission. And Kylo loses his shit and possibly leaves in some way.

I could legitimately see that happening.

do you think that the fact of Rey is phisically beautiful is something to do with the internal conflict that Ben feels for her?Every time he sees her in his gaze, he sees that struggle to confront her, but that admiration of those who, when they see someone very attractive, feel. Is it a conditioner like she looks for Kylo?

I don’t really think so. It’s incredibly clear that Kylo was intrigued by her from the beginning, a mystery, then in the interrogation scene it was cemented – she has the Force, she’s strong like me. That’s clearly very alluring to him.

And then in TLJ, I think what attracts him is how she echoes his feelings of being so lost – they’re both swept up with this power that is greater than Luke’s, alone. And to Kylo, she opens up and shares that with him – how long has it been since someone has emotionally connected to Ben? Far too long. And he’s desperate for it.

And then her strength in general – he’s allured by it. So much so that she was shown by his side and he just straight up says ‘rule with me’.

I know it’s super early to speculate but what do you think will be the first Force Bond scene of the next movie? I wonder if they will always be random or will one of them initiate it?

I hope they show that the bond has strengthened and can be done more or less on command in Ep 9.

But, I think…I’d like to see the first scene be with them in battle separately. I want it to be inconvenient for both of them – and if they’re fighting in separate battles/areas, that would do it.

If you watch Adam closely in the hand scene, when he sees their future he actually gulps and gets emotional. Even if he saw them ruling together, he was seeing a future where he was not alone. At the end of the movie he gulps again when he tries to reach out to Rey. This is to me the start of his redemption. He’s thinking of a future where he shares it with someone instead of bears it alone. I also think he uses the Force in a positive way when Rey is hurt and he is fighting the guards.

Oh yeah, they both gulp/gasp and it’s magical.

I agree, I think the vision scene is very important for both of them – for Rey, it encouraged her to go to Ben Solo and thereby break his chains. For Kylo, it showed him that there was someone right there (or more like emphasized) who UNDERSTANDS him enough to be with him. He, of course, is so warped by Snoke that he only ever saw that being dark/supreme leader based. He never saw the option – that he’d be with her in the middle. And that’s true for both of them.

Neither one could budge and so Rey left, heartbroken. And Kylo woke up heartbroken, but because it’s such a trigger for him, this one hit hard – and he spiraled.

It’s definitely the start – showing both of the hope for the future.