This is the flawed thinking that got everyone in trouble in the first place.
TRUE balance is achieved within one’s self – see the image of the Prime Jedi, the obvious yin/yang of Star Wars imagery. You can even go back to the inspiration of Star Wars – particularly the Force and Jedi themselves. Very similar to monks and philosophies of the Eastern world. They value balance within oneself, as it mimics the natural world.
The ‘dark’ side of the Force is alluring and a deep pool of water, easy to get swept away in it – but it’s necessary to acknowledge your darkness and balance it. Wildfires happen in nature as a cleansing, but wildfires are destructive right? So aren’t they ‘dark’ or the ‘violent’ side of the world/Force? People have that inside themselves as well, but you can’t be all destruction or else you’re not balanced.
People can’t be all ‘Light’ either – because without failure, without destruction – and yes even without suffering – you can’t grow and learn. You’ll forever stagnate – and that’s what Yoda was telling Luke. That to fail is to learn, and that’s balance.
The Force is just an energy field that thrives on balance, and when people abuse it (all light or all dark) it throws the universe off balance and into disharmony.
So to say that the Force wants ONE full-dark and ONE full-light user is folly. It values balance – Kylo may always be a little bit more dark than light and Rey vice versa, but that’s just how life is. What really matters is the actions and choices they make.
This is a crazy leap, but go with me here. Watch the Fifth Element scene here:
So the dude goes on this monologue about how it’s totally cool that he wants to destroy the universe and stuff, because that’s just how life goes. And on some level he’s right – destruction is natural and healthy for the overall progress and good of the world…but what he’s doing is by definition UNNATURAL. Similar to the Sith, he’s using the dark side of the force for selfish and unnatural reasons, thereby corrupting himself.
The theory he’s talking about is not necessarily wrong, sdlkfjdslk dsfsd but it is a warped view of the world and his place in it. Hubris at its finest. That’s kind of what the Sith were in the end. They were unnatural, so no Kylo won’t remain 100% dark because that’s not true balance the way the Force sees it.
Balance within one’s self is the true goal of any Jedi 😉
On 2nd watching of this scene, I just realized how fucking subversive Rian was with this imagery. Rey was delivered to Kylo like Snow White in the coffin, with a handsome prince looking down at her. And yet we know that Rey’s intention and resolve were of a white knight saving the ‘real’ princess from the hold of the evil monster. She’s clutching her weapon here and fully aware of what she was getting into. Not unconscious and being saved but ready to save.
I feel like we are meant to be confused by the fact that Rey and Kylo saw visions of each other’s futures that appear to contradict each other but I think that they actually don’t contradict each other at all. I they both have seen a part of the path they are meant to take together and they both naively believe they understand what that means but they actually don’t. Rey was the first of the two to have that naivety ripped away….but part of what she saw actually did happen, Kylo didn’t bow before Snoke just like she saw, the whole thing just didn’t happen the way she naively thought it would. It’s also clear that Kylo is in the same boat as Rey was this episode, he naively believes that he can manifest what he thinks he saw with him and Rey leading the galaxy but the narrative is already showing us that what he saw won’t happen the way he thinks it will happen either. He already couldnt get rey to join him but he still clearly wants her to and he will probably soon learn that he won’t be able to rule the way he thinks he has to, a conflict with Hux is clearly on the horizon. I think that what both of them saw of the other was true and will happen but neither one of them has the whole picture of how it’s actually supposed to go or what it will look like. They were both missing key parts of it and it will only make sense once they actually see their visions together, not just while seeing part of a whole.
Kylo said that he and Rey would usher in something NEW but both of them are holding on to the old constructs of the dark and the light and that is ultimately why they both won’t see what they saw, why they can’t see the whole picture and can only see part of it. Basically Kylo is meant to turn away from the first order AND Rey is meant to rule at Kylo’s side and usher in a new era of force users who exist in the middle, who don’t adhere to the old teachings of the Jedi or the darkside. Kylo and Rey lead a generation of new force users who aren’t ostracized by the Jedi for being pulled to the dark and who aren’t brainwashed to stomp out their pull to the light. They can infact do this together and it would make what they both saw true and it’s probably why the force has brought them together in the first place. Kylo didn’t keep repeating “let the past die” over and over for no reason, he nor Rey know the real reason why they both have to yet.
To kinda add on to my last post about this…but I think an important moment that shows that neither rey nor Kylo have the whole answer was when they both went for the light saber. The light saber is argubly the ultimate symbol of the past ideas and legacies that both rey and Kylo are trying to cling to for different reasons. In TFA if called out to Rey and we all know that its basically the saber of the skywalker family that Kylo thinks belongs to him. They both tried to force pull it In TFA, it stalled before going to Rey, a sign that she was meant to hold the saber, that it belongs to her, that she is meant to embark on the path of the light and defeat the dark. In TLJ Kylo was able to use the force to call out the saber and ignite it to kill Snoke. The saber had meaning to BOTH of them and they both think they were meant to possess it for different reasons, almost opposite reasons but when they both battled for it this time something else happened…..neither was able to possess it, instead it was destroyed. The saber was a metaphor for both of them, they are clinging to something that they aren’t meant to fully possess the way they think they are. It lured them to their destinies but it’s not their actual destiny. It was destroyed because it was a symbol of the past for Kylo and would only end up being a symbol of the past for Rey as well. It was destroyed because they both need to let go of the past ideas that motivated the people who used to wield it. Kylo isn’t meant to be anakin or Vader and Rey isn’t meant to be Luke. They are meant to have a different path, a path that doesn’t adhere to the strict dichotomy of the past.
“Kylo isn’t meant to be anakin or Vader and Rey isn’t meant to be Luke. They are meant to have a different path, a path that doesn’t adhere to the strict dichotomy of the past.”
I screamed when I saw this tbh! So much perfection!💜^__^
SHE DID THAT. SHE GOT NEW ROBES TO PICK UP HER MAN. HER EYEBROWS ON FLEEK, HER HAIR DOWN, HER SKIN CLEAR, HER THIRST REAL. GIRL WAS READY TO JUMP THAT PACKAGE AFTER PICKING IT UP FROM THE POST OFFICE
Rian Johnson is a clever bastard. I honestly had no idea he THIS amazing until this movie. The imagery was so blatant, it’s hard not to realize what he was implying. I absolutely loved how even Kylo Ren’s hair was combed neatly to look like a Prince. Her eyes are wide. He is absolute royalty, and he stands above her with such poise. Absolutely one of my favorite scenes!
Here is a link link to a video that talks about deleted scenes/concept art. In this scene, Rey was originally supposed to see her face mashed with Kylo Ren’s mask (shown at 4:23 in video). But Rian must have changed it to where Rey is looking an obscure image of Kylo/Ben.
Kylo Ren in Star Wars: The Last Jedi [2017] dir. Rian Johnson
@corseque sorry I just had to add this because! yes!
you made me realize what it was that kept catching my eye about this silhouette: it’s so medieval – almost to the point of parody, which by extension invokes a particular, soft form of (chivalrous) masculinity and an aggressive romanticism. fuckin, Prince in the Tower is right 😭👏
Yes!! it’s a very romantic, idealized costume they’ve chosen to dress him in for this movie. No other character has dressed AT ALL like this in any of the other movies – unless you compare it to the romanticism of his mother’s white princess dress in ANH. It is utterly medieval, with no Space Fashion influence at all besides (arguably) the texture. It makes me think of fairy tales like no other costume in this series has done. He’s no longer dressed as a monster/creature drowning in darkness, he is a prince, and also a chivalrous knight.
Since I’m fresh off having seen The Force Awakens for the sixth time yesterday, I wanted to write an analysis of the fight scene and the dynamics of the action. It’s a really fascinating sequence, and it’s worth considering in detail.
It begins when Finn and Rey are confronted by Kylo Ren in the forest. He is dishevelled and wounded – blood leaks from his side, and he beats his fist against his injury to fuel his pain and rage. Finn and Rey are both disgusted and frightened by him, and Rey is impassioned when she calls him a monster – this ties back to the interrogation scene, where Rey referred to Kylo as a “creature in a mask”. While he attempted to undermine that impression then by removing his mask and revealing his human face, the Rey who faces Kylo at the film’s climax – the Rey who witnessed the murder of Han Solo – is wiser and has learned that monsters can have very human faces. And Kylo himself has dispensed with any niceties. He tells Finn and Rey that Han Solo cannot save them, positioning himself as a predator preparing to attack two helpless, orphaned children lost in the woods. It could hardly be more fairy tale-esque if it tried.
I’ve seen various people say that Kylo was attempting to murder Rey by flinging her back into a tree after she attempts to fire at him, and while it’s clearly a cruel and violent gesture I really don’t think that was his intention. I think he planned on stunning her, which is exactly what he achieved. Kylo is painfully aware of Rey’s burgeoning powers (thus the many brief scenes of him stalking around Starkiller Base looking for her and receiving updates from stormies – he is conscious that he needs to stop her, and stop her quickly), and he knows immediately that she needs to be removed from the equation. His only miscalculation is in not knocking her out thoroughly enough – he merely dazes her, leaving her semi-conscious.
I analyse what’s going on with the “TRAITOR!” moment thoroughly here, so won’t repeat myself. Suffice to say that Finn inspires a frightening pitch of rage and malice in Kylo, and that this comes through in how he fights him. Particularly striking is the moment when Kylo and Finn have locked lightsabers, with Finn pressed against the tree and the crossguard of Kylo’s lightsaber burning a hole into Finn’s shoulder. Kylo’s face is alive with sadistic pleasure and malice as Finn screams in pain, and that’s the scream that stirs Rey to consciousness. Kylo is utterly indulgent of all his darkest impulses with Finn, and he demonstrates not even the remotest flicker of pity or respect for his victim. By slicing Finn’s spine open, Kylo wants to damage and ruin him – it’s the ultimate payback for Finn’s treachery, in all its manifestations.
The scene where the lightsaber flies past Kylo to Rey is easily one of the most powerful moments in the film, and it’s stupendously played by the actors. They form a tableau against the snow, with Kylo seeming to move his arm in slow motion as he regards Rey with a strange mix of awe, wonder and disbelief. When he looks at her in the film, it’s the same moment where he says “it is you” to himself in the novelisation. He knows who she is, and is electrified by that knowledge.
The main fight between Rey and Kylo can be neatly divided into two stages: before and after the offer. Before, Rey is very much at a disadvantage – while her strength is extraordinary, her fear and inexperience are vividly on display, and she focuses most of her energies on putting distance between herself and Kylo. She’s constantly scrabbling up rock faces and staggering back, aware she needs the distance if she’s to stand a chance. For his part, Kylo fights mostly defensively when Rey attempts to strike him – he takes a few swipes at her feet, presumably to try and disable her, but isn’t truly on the offensive. His approach with Rey could hardly be more different from his approach with Finn – he shows no desire to destroy or humiliate her, only a need to stop her.
When they both reach the precipice, the moment is a filmed in a way that underlines Rey’s massive disadvantage and apparent helplessness. Her body is bent backwards, close to falling, from the power of Kylo’s blade pressing fiercely against hers. Her face is contorted with fear and despair, alight with terror, and Kylo is clearly on the brink of victory.
And this is when he makes what is perhaps his singlemost ruinous error of judgement. Instead of finishing the fight as logic dictates he should, he offers to become Rey’s teacher. There is no mention of Snoke or even the Dark side – Kylo is intent only on Rey, and the offer he makes is an offer made between the two of them. In short, Kylo is ruined by his self-indulgence – his regard for and fascination with Rey win out over his duty to Snoke. He selfishly wants her to himself, and his vanity and arrogance mean he thinks he has her in a position that will force her to submit.
When Rey closes her eyes she is clearly drawing on the Force for strength. Ridley’s performance is particularly brilliant here, with her face transmuting away from exquisite peace and serenity the moment she adopts an animalistic snarl. While the Light side of the Force enabled her to steady herself and resist Kylo’s temptation, the Dark side of the Force is what empowers her to strike back against Kylo with rage and fury. The Dark side is fuelled by passion, and that’s the word that best describes Rey in the second half of the fight. She is transformed by her rage, becoming unstoppable and relentless. She is slender and small, and her size alone should mean she doesn’t stand a chance – but she’s powered by something greater than herself, something that means she can wrestle with a man far stronger and taller than she is and overpower him.
At the culmination of the fight, Rey’s approach to Kylo is disturbingly reminiscent of Kylo’s approach to Finn. They both appear to derive a kind of satisfaction from causing pain, dealing out unnecessary, brutal blows intended to scar, punish and humiliate their recipient. Rey didn’t need to brand Kylo’s face, but she clearly wanted to, even if only for the moment it took to make the strike – and that, I think, is the biggest hint we have about the direction that’s going to be taken in Episode VIII.
Right, that’s my latest bit of meta delivered for your reading pleasure! As always, this is just my interpretation – I welcome discussion, so would love for any of you to bounce your ideas off me. Let me know what you make of my take, and present your own!
The in-depth discussion behind this tweet. Really an amazing discovery! Except (naturally) I don’t agree with them saying that because ‘Across the Stars’ is potentially hinted at in Rey’s Theme, it’s implied that she may be a Skywalker. To the contrary, I think the fact that Anakin and Padme’s love theme is subtly referenced in Rey’s Theme implies something else entirely… 😉
Please listen to the entire Podcast! It is extremely interesting as they notice different character motifs in Rey’s theme! It’s worth a listen! Please note, I transcribed as best as I can, there might be slight errors and these guys do not talk about any romantic involvement, mostly speculation but it’s interesting to hear these guys notice these details:
“The last 3 notes of Kylo Ren’s theme are the same as the first 3 notes of Rey’s theme.
The first 3 notes of Rey’s theme are kinda like the first 3 notes of ACROSS THE STARS in REVERSE. I don’t know if that means anything. A lot of people are building a
case that Rey is Luke Skywalker’s daughter or somewhow related to a
Skywalker, its a popular Fan Theory–
Half of Kylo Ren’s motif, is found in the beginning of Rey’s theme.
There
are similar lines and passages to the Prequel love story of Anakin and
Padmé and the Skywalker Lineage, there’s some stuff in there, if you
choose to look for it you know? I heard a lot of Across the Stars the
first time I heard Rey’s theme you know, there’s some ideas that remind
me of Across the Stars, and then to hear, Kylo Ren, just kind of
like, IN REVERSE, you know, instead of [ Then plays the notes] – *
Laughs * I am just putting it out there. I don’t know what it means, we
could be proven completely wrong, I mean she could just be a new
vergence in the Force that comes out of nowehere, We have NO idea. BUT
that stuff is there.”
THIS IS JUST-
If her theme and Kylo’s both are referencing a love theme, wouldn’t that suggest something other than for them to be relatives?
Reylo Source 